IMPORTANT (I)
First things first, these would be replies to comments on the previous entry, so you might want to read the comments on the previous post first. Thought theyd be too long there, and I want to be sure everyone captures this.
Nick, you have to realise the difference between fantasizing and recollecting. I know theres no way time can be turned back. If my language and tone provides a path leading towards the reader thinking I am living in the past, I apologize then, it is not so. As a side note, what else can I think of if the present doesnt hold anything worthy of thought, if I want to hold happy thoughts that is.
Socializing...Initiative...Those words dont go together for me. Its just the way I am. To alter that would be to alter my self--what would socializing be then in that context? Also, you might not know it but Im sure my friends are all too aware of it--I am capable of "making the first moves" and being the active one. That is, after the initial few phases, and few ever do manage to get past those starting stages with me. Yes, comparatively few.
And that’s a really good thing—in this case, quality has an inverse relationship with quantity. I am proud of my “inner core” of friends, and can safely say they would stick with me through anything, and vice versa of course. In fact I’d rather sacrifice a healthier social circle to have a purer distillate of friendship. To write about the differences and characteristics of a social circle and a inner circle of friends would be unnecessarily long; I’ll leave it to your own thoughts. As a matter of fact, I group these select few individuals as knights in my msn list—and theyre the finest people you could ever behold. I can boast that the times we have gone through together are times you could never possibly experience in your lifetime, and they would be valid boasts. For those concerned with statistics, there are 19 of them out of a possible 110 males in my list. I wonder when would a female get into that category of mine, if ever.
Pick myself up? Haha. Done so a long long time ago. It is just mellow bitterness now, not anguished fashions. The former is here to stay, theres nothing I can do really. Note: Nothing I can do.
Psyche, your formulae provides the same answer for me and the class I was in during the PAE period.
Strength of friendship = (unity + joy) / amt of time spent.
Sadly, you (hopefully) and I know that this isn’t the only formulae of friendship, nor would it ever be the most accurate.
There is a whole list of contentions. Unity and joy aren’t the only quantities. Times of adversity and times of bitter-sweetness—which could hardly be lumped with joy—are quantities to be considered too. Plus, what is this strength of friendship? I don’t see how a “softer”, mellower friendship could lose out to a “strong” friendship, which this formulae “calculates” [I hope you understand Im not degrading these quantities into calculus; theyre just there for simplicity’s sake]. How does one define joy anyway? Would it not be rather insulting if “simple mirth” is the only constituent of joy, if three hours of joy means laughing for three hours?
To me, the most striking point of all would be the fact that time is not only a variable factor in itself, but it also influences, if not converts, other quantities, variable or otherwise. Two months yes. It would be easy to say that in proportion, friendship forged in that time would be “stronger”, or should I just say better, than friendship forged over four years. But put it out of the context of the relaxed atmosphere of the first two months. For all you know, time could very well unmask true colors and reveal impurities. Plus, as time increases, friendships mellow out—it would be rational to think that over time, “simple mirth” actually decreases to accommodate more intricate components of friendship. In simple terms, it would just mean that after those two months, we probably would be laughing less already. [I know this might be contradictory to the numerous ex-class outings, but again, think out of the context of the relaxed atmosphere of those times. It would be hard to assume that enjoying one self then would mean enjoying one’s self perpetually with them, in the same class. This has got to do with the possibility that you’re enjoying yourself more in those times BECAUSE you cant enjoy the times with them in class anymore. Ie you treasure lesser times more simply because they have become lesser].
As a real-life experience drawn from my own life, I and JR started off by uh, constantly shaking our bodies in chinese lessons [and discussing AOE2 tactics on how to beat vic and zhann while chew hwa soon !^# @...Do you still remember?? Haha]…We never did that after the first year. Point here is, the initial kickoff stages that both you and I experienced were but kickoff stages. They’d change, for better or for worse we’d never know now.
Did you just realize how everything I’ve said written is inconsistent, even contradictory to my previous stands? Your comments just made me think from different perspectives, arguably better perspectives and definitely more mature ones. Ah, that’s the beauty of combining viewpoints, of fusion of thoughts. Your comments are greatly appreciated here, all of you.
Take a breather now. Theres more stuffs.
It has come to my attention that certain people around me are…in a state of misery not unlike mine. Maybe misery is too harsh a word to digest; we all have good times no matter when, even me now. Maybe just in a state of maturing of emotions, and that’s a term I would name for that collective bunch of melancholy feelings.
One fine example would be mr jj at http://www.mannishversion.mindsay.com/.. His situation parallels mine in a way. It’d be interesting to see how we’d cope—or how we’d just resign to ourselves.
I was talking to a someone I know from rjc. To quote word for word, “u know I miss sec sch. Jc sucks. Jc really sucks.” He said he couldn’t get along with the people there.
And then someone from vj. “we talked, we laughed, we joked, we teased, but at the end of the day its all just…empty…just wondering if we’d all learnt to mask ourselves up.” “..consider the amount of time we spend together, what we know of each other is just…very limited..Somehow the innocence is all gone, together with truthfulness and sincerity..” I really really really really could not have agreed more.
Another from vj. “Guess I got too absorbed into my personal life…teenage stuff seem trivial [now].” “my mind feels listless. void of any creative energy.”
Im sure there would be a few more of such people around.
Take heart, we aren’t the only ones alone in all this. That goes out to all of you, but especially to myself.
Im not alone. Im actually not alone in all this negativity. It could only mean its not my fault. Neither is it theirs. Its just the environment. Different characters are suited for different environments; oh why are some changes so irreversible? Do you really believe it is our fault we aren’t adapting well? How many don’t want to adapt anyway? I don’t, not in this particular case, because adapting to my present environment would mean changing myself to someone I wouldn’t recognize.
Superficiality. Interactions with classmates go no deeper than the surface. I smile cheerfully at petty jokes. This is one area I would admit I have conformed to. Ive become a polite guy—and I don’t even feel polite whenever I do those polite things. I do those things as a means of expediency, because its easier to be an amiable chap than otherwise. I feel so wretched you know, being things Im not. Shallow mask of manners, so to speak.
We come back to the point of male-female synergy within a group. How united can a male-female mix be? Its impossible to “gay” about with females, and the lack of that means I cant proceed anywhere further than well, politeness. How many wondrous times I brandished that light saber of mine and cut you up into tiny pieces? Oh by the way, Ive tried those things a couple of times and the responses weren’t good. Lol.
Neutrally speaking, theres always this certain threshold a male and female can be within before they start thinking of romance. Ok imagine two great friends, both of the same gender, and they always hang out together, have their meals etc. Now what if it’s a male and female? How many of us would immediately jump to the assumption that theyre dating? And they wouldn’t be irrational assumptions, because its just the way it is. A male and female can never be greater friends than a male and a male, or a female and a female, simply because to be approaching that range of maximum limit would be to convert friendship into romance. So, in essence, you tend to have either a relationship, or just a low-level friendship. And in mature relationships theres lesser room for all this unity thing. This is, btw, based on real-life experience. Theres a couple in my class during the PAE period—how many times did they stray away from the group, sometimes to the extent of breaking off completely?
And that’s why a mix of male-female would always be a weaker form of single gender group unity. The group either experiences a low to moderate level of friendship, or a tainted form of that as romance, or abstinence, comes into play.
Then of course, theres all your traditional causes explaining why its easier to get along with people of the same gender. More common interests, habits, way of thinking, etc.
Do you get what Im driving at? Its a very broad point. Basically it just means your best friends would always be of the same gender, and taking a further step back to look at the even bigger point, it means that, ultimately, your secondary school friends are still the best. Now that would very likely draw flak from people, but before you fire away, consider this:
“we talked, we laughed, we joked, we teased, but at the end of the day its all just…empty… Somehow the innocence is all gone, together with truthfulness and sincerity..”Yes that pretty much captures everything. To everyone reading this, I question the validity of your so-called friendships. Of your so-called fun times together. You might think you’re enjoying the company of your college friends now [actually, I haven’t got a single report of that at all], but really, how long-term are your friendships going to be? Would they ever mellow out? Or always be filled with the same laughter?
No wonder Ive heard people say that your secondary school friends would always remain as your best friends, or taking it a step further, your life-long friends.
I guess it’ll do you good to take some time out to reflect on what friendship really is, and who are your friends.
Take my Quiz on QuizYourFriends.com!
Nick, you have to realise the difference between fantasizing and recollecting. I know theres no way time can be turned back. If my language and tone provides a path leading towards the reader thinking I am living in the past, I apologize then, it is not so. As a side note, what else can I think of if the present doesnt hold anything worthy of thought, if I want to hold happy thoughts that is.
Socializing...Initiative...Those words dont go together for me. Its just the way I am. To alter that would be to alter my self--what would socializing be then in that context? Also, you might not know it but Im sure my friends are all too aware of it--I am capable of "making the first moves" and being the active one. That is, after the initial few phases, and few ever do manage to get past those starting stages with me. Yes, comparatively few.
And that’s a really good thing—in this case, quality has an inverse relationship with quantity. I am proud of my “inner core” of friends, and can safely say they would stick with me through anything, and vice versa of course. In fact I’d rather sacrifice a healthier social circle to have a purer distillate of friendship. To write about the differences and characteristics of a social circle and a inner circle of friends would be unnecessarily long; I’ll leave it to your own thoughts. As a matter of fact, I group these select few individuals as knights in my msn list—and theyre the finest people you could ever behold. I can boast that the times we have gone through together are times you could never possibly experience in your lifetime, and they would be valid boasts. For those concerned with statistics, there are 19 of them out of a possible 110 males in my list. I wonder when would a female get into that category of mine, if ever.
Pick myself up? Haha. Done so a long long time ago. It is just mellow bitterness now, not anguished fashions. The former is here to stay, theres nothing I can do really. Note: Nothing I can do.
Psyche, your formulae provides the same answer for me and the class I was in during the PAE period.
Strength of friendship = (unity + joy) / amt of time spent.
Sadly, you (hopefully) and I know that this isn’t the only formulae of friendship, nor would it ever be the most accurate.
There is a whole list of contentions. Unity and joy aren’t the only quantities. Times of adversity and times of bitter-sweetness—which could hardly be lumped with joy—are quantities to be considered too. Plus, what is this strength of friendship? I don’t see how a “softer”, mellower friendship could lose out to a “strong” friendship, which this formulae “calculates” [I hope you understand Im not degrading these quantities into calculus; theyre just there for simplicity’s sake]. How does one define joy anyway? Would it not be rather insulting if “simple mirth” is the only constituent of joy, if three hours of joy means laughing for three hours?
To me, the most striking point of all would be the fact that time is not only a variable factor in itself, but it also influences, if not converts, other quantities, variable or otherwise. Two months yes. It would be easy to say that in proportion, friendship forged in that time would be “stronger”, or should I just say better, than friendship forged over four years. But put it out of the context of the relaxed atmosphere of the first two months. For all you know, time could very well unmask true colors and reveal impurities. Plus, as time increases, friendships mellow out—it would be rational to think that over time, “simple mirth” actually decreases to accommodate more intricate components of friendship. In simple terms, it would just mean that after those two months, we probably would be laughing less already. [I know this might be contradictory to the numerous ex-class outings, but again, think out of the context of the relaxed atmosphere of those times. It would be hard to assume that enjoying one self then would mean enjoying one’s self perpetually with them, in the same class. This has got to do with the possibility that you’re enjoying yourself more in those times BECAUSE you cant enjoy the times with them in class anymore. Ie you treasure lesser times more simply because they have become lesser].
As a real-life experience drawn from my own life, I and JR started off by uh, constantly shaking our bodies in chinese lessons [and discussing AOE2 tactics on how to beat vic and zhann while chew hwa soon !^# @...Do you still remember?? Haha]…We never did that after the first year. Point here is, the initial kickoff stages that both you and I experienced were but kickoff stages. They’d change, for better or for worse we’d never know now.
Did you just realize how everything I’ve said written is inconsistent, even contradictory to my previous stands? Your comments just made me think from different perspectives, arguably better perspectives and definitely more mature ones. Ah, that’s the beauty of combining viewpoints, of fusion of thoughts. Your comments are greatly appreciated here, all of you.
Take a breather now. Theres more stuffs.
It has come to my attention that certain people around me are…in a state of misery not unlike mine. Maybe misery is too harsh a word to digest; we all have good times no matter when, even me now. Maybe just in a state of maturing of emotions, and that’s a term I would name for that collective bunch of melancholy feelings.
One fine example would be mr jj at http://www.mannishversion.mindsay.com/.. His situation parallels mine in a way. It’d be interesting to see how we’d cope—or how we’d just resign to ourselves.
I was talking to a someone I know from rjc. To quote word for word, “u know I miss sec sch. Jc sucks. Jc really sucks.” He said he couldn’t get along with the people there.
And then someone from vj. “we talked, we laughed, we joked, we teased, but at the end of the day its all just…empty…just wondering if we’d all learnt to mask ourselves up.” “..consider the amount of time we spend together, what we know of each other is just…very limited..Somehow the innocence is all gone, together with truthfulness and sincerity..” I really really really really could not have agreed more.
Another from vj. “Guess I got too absorbed into my personal life…teenage stuff seem trivial [now].” “my mind feels listless. void of any creative energy.”
Im sure there would be a few more of such people around.
Take heart, we aren’t the only ones alone in all this. That goes out to all of you, but especially to myself.
Im not alone. Im actually not alone in all this negativity. It could only mean its not my fault. Neither is it theirs. Its just the environment. Different characters are suited for different environments; oh why are some changes so irreversible? Do you really believe it is our fault we aren’t adapting well? How many don’t want to adapt anyway? I don’t, not in this particular case, because adapting to my present environment would mean changing myself to someone I wouldn’t recognize.
Superficiality. Interactions with classmates go no deeper than the surface. I smile cheerfully at petty jokes. This is one area I would admit I have conformed to. Ive become a polite guy—and I don’t even feel polite whenever I do those polite things. I do those things as a means of expediency, because its easier to be an amiable chap than otherwise. I feel so wretched you know, being things Im not. Shallow mask of manners, so to speak.
We come back to the point of male-female synergy within a group. How united can a male-female mix be? Its impossible to “gay” about with females, and the lack of that means I cant proceed anywhere further than well, politeness. How many wondrous times I brandished that light saber of mine and cut you up into tiny pieces? Oh by the way, Ive tried those things a couple of times and the responses weren’t good. Lol.
Neutrally speaking, theres always this certain threshold a male and female can be within before they start thinking of romance. Ok imagine two great friends, both of the same gender, and they always hang out together, have their meals etc. Now what if it’s a male and female? How many of us would immediately jump to the assumption that theyre dating? And they wouldn’t be irrational assumptions, because its just the way it is. A male and female can never be greater friends than a male and a male, or a female and a female, simply because to be approaching that range of maximum limit would be to convert friendship into romance. So, in essence, you tend to have either a relationship, or just a low-level friendship. And in mature relationships theres lesser room for all this unity thing. This is, btw, based on real-life experience. Theres a couple in my class during the PAE period—how many times did they stray away from the group, sometimes to the extent of breaking off completely?
And that’s why a mix of male-female would always be a weaker form of single gender group unity. The group either experiences a low to moderate level of friendship, or a tainted form of that as romance, or abstinence, comes into play.
Then of course, theres all your traditional causes explaining why its easier to get along with people of the same gender. More common interests, habits, way of thinking, etc.
Do you get what Im driving at? Its a very broad point. Basically it just means your best friends would always be of the same gender, and taking a further step back to look at the even bigger point, it means that, ultimately, your secondary school friends are still the best. Now that would very likely draw flak from people, but before you fire away, consider this:
“we talked, we laughed, we joked, we teased, but at the end of the day its all just…empty… Somehow the innocence is all gone, together with truthfulness and sincerity..”Yes that pretty much captures everything. To everyone reading this, I question the validity of your so-called friendships. Of your so-called fun times together. You might think you’re enjoying the company of your college friends now [actually, I haven’t got a single report of that at all], but really, how long-term are your friendships going to be? Would they ever mellow out? Or always be filled with the same laughter?
No wonder Ive heard people say that your secondary school friends would always remain as your best friends, or taking it a step further, your life-long friends.
I guess it’ll do you good to take some time out to reflect on what friendship really is, and who are your friends.
Take my Quiz on QuizYourFriends.com!
6 Comments:
The first word that came to my mind was actually 'bliss', but I thought that word too strong.. plus it has subjective meanings for everyone... so just take it as 'the satisfaction derived from good company', satisfaction itself being another subjective term.
Don't forget there is no one proper definition to 'true friendship' too.
And sheesh friendship remains or becomes as strong as two friends (of similar gender or not) want it to be, be it in their minds or in terms of face-to-face meets. The same for relationships.
Regarding good buddies between two of opposite gender, I think it is a trivial issue. Yes friendship is a precursor to relationship in most cases, but not every good friendship between opposite genders has to end with a relationship. If two are really good friends, why fear wagging tongues? (For example your good friend Mr CYF always pairs me up with every other guy I talk to, including poor JR. But I laugh and wait for him to finish teasing before moving on because I have nothing to fear, the last being his cheeky tendencies. Or maybe that's his way of striking up conversation, I don't know. *raises an odd brow*) Maybe that's why I only hear of such friendships with young people of more mature ages, if you get what I mean. *shakes head*
By the way I think my quote is erm inappropriate for this post. And oh yes, another reason why I'm not writing is because pretty much these days fall into any of these following categories: non-meaningful/trivial, insignificant, wistful words others can do without, personal.
I still stick to my own opinion on who and what gender my better friends are, and you can stick to yours. In the meantime I wonder how I should ease my situation. If only I did not lose my wallet yesterday, I would not have to miss STJ today so that I can go pick my lost possession up at a There's also a class outing to WildWildWet next week plus stayover after that. Oh god. I wonder how on Mars am I going to deal with that, despite a wish to patch up my relations with the class. [insert horrified look]
Personally, I do believe that true friendships between two of opposite gender exist. There may be few, but when it happens, chances are it is stronger than friendships of the same gender. Think about it, friendships which has cross the border of romance. Wouldn't it be more valuable?
Speaking of tongues wagging or teasing. Why bother about that if two are really good friends? Why let those nonsensical comments affects the friendship? I wouldn't mind hanging out often with someone of the opposite gender, so long as we enjoy each other's company and the other party doesn't mind too, even if it means getting frequent teasings or absurb assumptions from others.
One more thing. Friendships between two of opposite gender don't always lead to romance. Besides, not all good friends of opposite genders has the chemistry or the "extra something" to lead the relationship one step further. It is always easier to be friends.
M'
I guess the points brought up are all worth some thoughts.
But dont forget the main point here isnt about this male and female thing. That could be 'trivial' in itself. The point Im trying to make known here, and do note that Im not trying to make it accepted by all, would be: Secondary sch friends > College friends.
Naturally, everyone would feel some resistance towards that statement, even myself. Yes, I myself found this notion fairly radical, even for my standards. But after several contemplative sessions, I realized that all in all, I'd still prefer my secondary school friends to my college ones, group versus group, not individual versus individual. For the latter there'd be no much comparison because indiscernible numbers from both "make the grade", if you pardon the inappropriate phrase for lack of a more directly astute one. This is in part due to my various opinions on the effects of the inclusion of the opposite gender in a group, and that is by no means insulting anyone here--bear in mind that sec sch friends > college friends does not translate into college friends = rubbish, and that the opposite gender who make things more...complicated is not my enemy and I do not, in all sincerity, hold the thought that they should be gone. This is, by the way, a mark of me adaptating to the environment.
In the larger scheme of things, I do encourage you to go beyond factors like male-female synergy, or the lack of it in a group. Spend some time, reflect. How close are YOU with your college friends? Overcome that barrier of human compassion that so easily misleads you, or worse still, restrict you. Think, just for a few times, that "my secondary school friends are still closer to me than my college friends".
Actually that reminds me of something. I read in a philosophical guide not too long back about human thought, which is in part tied in with your theory of knowledge and skepticism. It was actually proven that if one starts thinking and calling a cat a dog whenever he sees one, and does this over a variable period of time, he'd actually start *thinking* of dogs as cats, and start picking out characteristics of cats to fit into his image of the dog consequently. Im not very sure if those characteristics are conjured up by the individual, or if he had suddenly become more sensitive and perceptive of the characteristics between the dog and the cat, but it implies that whenever the individual inspects a dog, his mind would register the similar characteristics [imaginary or otherwise, it was not stated, or maybe it could not be proven]between a dog and a cat instead of the differences, the latter being part of the tool we would commonly use to differentiate between the two animals of course.
Point: If you begin the journey of blurring the borders between standard, rational thought and its so-called irrational counterpart, or in this context, the emotionally-repulsive thought that your sec sch friends are *more* than your college sch mates [whichever way you choose to define it], and go on this journey long enough, you start thinking of why. You start thinking from both ends of the field. Your thoughts mature, and you become a prime judge in that assertion, as compared to your "thinking-within-borders" self before you started the journey. This process is what I call contemplation. And your answer lies at the end of the journey.
*smiles*
Let time tell the story.
M'
I don't see the need to distinguish my friendships between my secondary school friends and my college friends.
As far as I'm concerned they're all my friends. I know I have good friends from both secondary school life and college which I know I can count and rely on, across gender borders. We all may each have own own different backgrounds and different 'common histories', but a common bond still exists, and we do learn from each other too along our path of friendship. That's what really matters to me and cherish at the end of every day.
must apologise for not giving your post the attention it really deserves, but i'm kind of in a rush here.
my comments about how you should just accept what you have now still holds, i guess, though i may have misinterpreted what you have said earlier. seriously, you sounded really miserable.
i agree with your point on better to have a small circle of close friends than to have a large circle of moderate friendships.
my question is, why can't you have both? why not? and i don't think friendship can be reduced to a formula. i find it really rather demeaning. stop trying to use science to understand an art. it rarely gives an accurate picture.
other than that, excellent work and analysis in your postings.
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